Batting Challenge

[Fence]

A simple game to help us at the plate and provide an excuse for stopping by the bar on our way home.

Strike/Foul Out = -3
Fly Out = -2
Ground Out = -1
Base Hit = +1

At the end of the night the players who are negative have to buy beers for the players who were positive. If we're all positive then we likely won both games and we're all happy. If there is more positive than negative the highest scores will be paid off first. If there's more negative than positive the most negative scores will pay out first. That's it. Just something to keep us from trying to lift the ball for extra base hits when the new balls have been turning those into outs. Make sure you let me know before the game if you want in for this week. I still owe Moose 2 beers from last week when we played heads up.

[IRon]

Cool.

According to this system I was -2 last week.

However, that was due to a sacrifice. I intentionally hit the ball in the air with the bases loaded in the hopes that it would get by someone or worst case allow someone to tag up. I wanted to avoid a double play at all costs. It did get the run in, and ended up being either the game winning run or the insurance run, I can't remember.

On the other hand, I hit a pathetic fly to RF that somehow stayed fair and wasn't caught, but should have been a fly out.

So this system doesn't account for luck, but I think it will even out over time.

[Hoochie]

Our method for base hits doesn't account for luck, either. I wouldn't count the sac fly as a negative because it had a positive outcome.

I think we should be focusing in on the fact that there isn't a lineup, and that Moose hasn't told anyone, besides me, that we're short 2 players. It was 3, but he scrounged up 1 just a second ago.

[Fence]

Doing my best to help find subs. Berisford is in. Lupo is trying to make it happen.

As for sac flys. In slow pitch softball I would not trade a run for an out with bases loaded and less than two outs. I could compromise with you guys to make sac flys -1 if you want. Only if it brings in a run though.

So are the four of us all in for the challenge tonight?

[Fence]

Actually I think we should stick to fly vs. ground out. If we change it for sac flys we should do the same for double plays as I realize a DP is much worse with bases loaded as I proved last week. There might be times like Ron described where you put your Batting Challenge score in jeopardy for the good of the team. That's what being a team player is all about. It's not a perfect system, but I think simplicity is the key.

[Pancreas]

(I'm going to complain here about how much I dislike baseball stats)

No baseball stats account for luck, though they make a feeble attempt at it, which bothers me more than if they just didn't even try. For example, if I hit the ball to the second baseman and luckily he fumbles it (it had a weird spin, hit a small rock and was not where it should have been) and I make it on, I don't get credit for the hit, but if I was aiming for the left field fence, was slow and a little high on the ball, but luckily hit the ball anyway and it grounded out of the reach of the 2nd baseman, I do get credit for the hit. Both are luck, but one I get credit for.

That is the way with baseball stats, some luck you get credit for, and some you don't. Its all bullshit.

[Fence]

All I'll say is read Money Ball, although I haven't had a chance to get to it myself yet, and I'll leave the rest Ron. Go get em Sos.

[Hoochie]

[quote="Fence"]Actually I think we should stick to fly vs. ground out. If we change it for sac flys we should do the same for double plays as I realize a DP is much worse with bases loaded as I proved last week. There might be times like Ron described where you put your Batting Challenge score in jeopardy for the good of the team. That's what being a team player is all about. It's not a perfect system, but I think simplicity is the key.[/quote]

I don't agree with the fly out counting more than the ground out. An out is an out. Your theory is that if you hit into a ground out then your at bat was better because you weren't trying to hit it out. That rationale seems wrong to me. I know that Willie Mays Hayes had to do push ups for every pop-up, but that's because he's fast. I'm not going to attempt to hit the ball on the ground because 1) trying to out run grounders is painful and unfullfilling and 2) I'm fat.

I believe this post has gone longer than I expected. So to summarize, an out is an out, and scoring a run with a sac fly with the bases loaded and less than 2 outs is great in baseball and in softball.

[IRon]

I was going to write a reply, then I decided it would end up taking too long, but then Fence called me out.

Anyway, I liked Pancreas' summary point the best:

[quote]Its all bullshit.[/quote]

Funny stuff.

[Big Sac]

So why the hell did I just buy all this beer!!! You F*@%r better stay long enough to drink this fancy crap...Because it's NOT going home with me!!!

[Hoochie]

[quote="Big Sac"]So why the hell did I just buy all this beer!!! You F*@%r better stay long enough to drink this fancy crap...Because it's NOT going home with me!!![/quote]

Easy, Sac. I don't think Chip is referring to a STR82. If he is, then that's crazy.

[Big Sac]

I'm calm, just getting angry!!! How about Sac buys the 1st 12+ fancy beers for this contest and then you go to the bar.

[Dirty Moose]

The whole purpose of the game is to discourage hit fly outs which is a big source of our outs. So encouraging line outs and groudn outs is better then flyouts. In the long run, you'll do better by hitting less flyouts. Lineouts are hard to get, ground outs have higher error rate then flyouts. That's the point of the game.

[Big Sac]

Sac understands the point of the game and Sac has no problem with the game and even thinks it's a great idea, however Sac just bought fancy beer and the fancy beer is not going home w/ Sac. That's all.

[Hoochie]

[quote="Dirty Moose"]The whole purpose of the game is to discourage hit fly outs which is a big source of our outs. So encouraging line outs and groudn outs is better then flyouts. In the long run, you'll do better by hitting less flyouts. Lineouts are hard to get, ground outs have higher error rate then flyouts. That's the point of the game.[/quote]

The equation does not say anything about line outs. Are they classified as fly outs or ground outs? I would say that I get a higher error rate from the right fielder than from the left side of the infield.

[Hoochie]

I have come to the conclusion that this "challenge" is discriminatory towards slow, fat people.